DO I NEED a soil check out? And what kind of amendments should I be together with to my vegetable beds or containers to get points off to an excellent start? And the best way can I optimistic tune my composting this yr to optimize outcomes? These are a couple of of the properly timed questions I lined with Annie Novak, supervisor of the Edible Academy on the New York Botanical Yard.
In a world the place we continuously cope with what product we’ll add, as if there could also be an on the spot reply, Annie says this: “In case you are taking a step once more and consider how the pure world works with out your have an effect on, after which as many courses as you presumably can derive from that in direction of your particular person practices in your yard, you’re going to be a considerably higher gardener.”
A lot much less is normally additional.
Annie may also be founder and director of Rising Cooks, a field-to-fork meals coaching program, and co-founder of Eagle Highway Rooftop Farm in Greenpoint, Brooklyn. Plus, she wrote “The Rooftop Rising Data” (affiliate hyperlink).
Annie could be certainly one of {many professional} presenters on the upcoming Workshop Experience Weekend, Would possibly seventh and eighth, throughout the Hudson Valley of New York that I’m serving to arrange.
Study alongside as you are taking heed to the April 4, 2022 model of my public-radio current and podcast using the participant beneath. You can subscribe to all future editions on Apple Podcasts (iTunes) or Spotify or Stitcher (and browse my archive of podcasts proper right here).
(Image of Annie, beneath, from Uniqlo; excessive image by Jackie Snow.)
caring for soil and making compost, with annie novak
Margaret: Sooner than we get started, Annie, I do know you’re going to offer two programs on Would possibly seventh, near the place I am in Columbia County, New York, as part of The Workshop Experience Weekend. And we’re having nature and cooking and crafts and mushroom rising, and likewise you establish it, all at theworkshopexperience.org.
So that you simply’re giving two programs, one on what we’re talking about proper now, understanding soils and composting, and the other is about…
Annie: [Laughter.] Nocturnal fowl migration.
Margaret: Oh, yin-yang. That’s the yin-yang of composting [laughter].
Annie: Yeah. I indicate, I really feel the pure connection between the two is I personally am inquisitive about every of them. Nonetheless additional sometimes speaking, I really feel, as I grew to develop into a higher and better gardener, I grew to develop into an rising variety of curious in regards to the birds in our yard, and the best way they work along with that space. After which, the additional you discover out about birds and fowl migration, which is itself its private fascinating analysis, birds that migrate at night time time, and the best way we, as of us normally asleep all through that time, can analysis them is just infinitely fascinating—considerably on account of the know-how to overview it has superior so much throughout the last couple a few years.
Margaret: It really has. And it is fascinating what researchers are learning and what they’re doing with the information that they’re getting by monitoring them.
Annie: Yeah. Yeah. I indicate there are a collection of numerous strategies I would say… In all probability probably the most merely accessible to the layperson is a higher understanding of how you should utilize radar know-how. Which isn’t to say you would have your particular person radar station, nevertheless merely that there are numerous platforms the place you presumably can watch radar movement, and with the flexibility to see birds switch all through spring and fall migration proper right here throughout the Northeast, or North America sometimes, is just unbelievable. It’s like illustratively gorgeous.
And it’s moreover, by the use of capabilities as you talked about, having an understanding of when, how, the place birds are transferring at night time time provides us, as of us, larger strategies to work along with them, as they fly and as quickly as they land.
So each factor from with the flexibility to study the populations as they improve throughout the fall—as fledglings are coming over from, let’s say, Canada into Northeast, you presumably can see that,. The radar cloud will get bigger. Or let’s say you want to flip lights off at night time time in a metropolis area to help birds migrate larger, you presumably can see what nights birds are migrating by watching them precise time on radar. So it’s really neat, and it’s form of astonishing how accessible it is.
Margaret: Successfully, I hope everytime you’re proper right here in Would possibly, to do your reveals, that you simply simply’ll come go to the yard, the place I’m lucky that about 70 species of birds typically go to yearly, so it’s form of pleasurable. And maybe you’ll say hiya to a couple of them [laughter].
Annie: That’s unbelievable. And I’ve to say, Margaret, that precise is testimony to how good of a gardener you could be. I indicate, it’s not pure that birds would go to any outdated yard. You really have to know the exact plant for the exact place to get these birds to return. So, 70 is a robust amount.
Margaret: As we’re saying, we have to develop a great deal of bugs to get a great deal of birds, correct?
Annie: [Laughter.] True, true phrases.
Margaret: Look, my last establish is Roach. I develop bugs. What can I say [laughter]?
So all the best way all the way down to the aim of proper now’s dialog, now that we’ve derailed onto one amongst our mutually favorite subjects…
Maybe this sounds acquainted, spherical this time of yr, individuals are starting their cleanup and their yard prep. And I get a great deal of emails and a great deal of questions, and they also’re telling me the entire provides they’re about to indicate into their soil and all these baggage of points they bought, and they also’re going to “improve” their soil.
And what I typically infer from these messages is there’s a complete lot of guesswork taking place. So everytime you’re instructing soil prep and getting started throughout the spring and so forth, are there preliminary steps that we have now to take to get notion, sooner than we merely go searching for $100 worth of stuff and dumping it into the yard? Yeah.
Annie: Yeah. Oh my gosh, no, it’s so fascinating me. And it’s possible you’ll relate this too to the experience I’ve had engaged on the Edible Academy in New York Botanical Yard [above, NYBG photo], talking to of us about meals and meals properly being. We over, as soon as extra, a few years attempting once more into identical to the late 1800s forward, we’ve really fallen in love with add-ons, with labels and secret ideas. It’s a very human attribute. I don’t have any downside with it per se.
Nonetheless, considerably on the planet of gardening and passionate about your yard as an space the place biology happens and chemistry happens, and some of those really unbelievable sciences, it should be under-complicated. I indicate, while you take a step once more and consider how the pure world works with out your have an effect on, after which as many courses as you presumably can derive from that in path of your particular person practices in your yard, you’re going to be a considerably higher gardener.
So a great deal of one of the best ways I consider soil amendments and bettering my soils has to do with the experiences I’ve had being in open pure areas. I would take a stroll throughout the Thain Family Forest on the botanical yard, and form of seek for the place I see decomposition occurring—or seek for areas the place I see really high quality soil creating after which try to use these practices to my very personal space.
So to your degree about your 70-bird yard, which I’m going to take care of gold-starring as we go, it’s really unbelievable, is that there’s a robust chance that as you’re doing all your yard cleanup, you’re passionate about points like, “How can I take away vegetation which have viral pathogens or fungus points or one thing that’s more likely to be detrimental to my vegetable yard?” Nonetheless by and big, how will you moreover go away points in place so that regardless of hard-mineral nutritional vitamins—your calcium your boron, your manganese—regardless of was throughout the plant as a result of it grew, and likewise you harvested, let’s say, the tomato that you simply simply ate, the fruit, how will you are taking the rest of that and put it once more into the soil, so that the soils getting a possibility to reinvest these mineral nutritional vitamins, as an illustration?
So, certainly one of many add-ons that truly kills me are these hydrophilic water absorption points.
Margaret: Oh, I do know. Oh.
Annie: What’s that. I indicate, when you’ll be able to’t create an excellent, healthful soil with an excellent pure matter matrix to absorb water, that’s the place I would start. Not with the goofy little blue snot balls which could be supposedly serving to you out [laughter].
Margaret: That’s a very good description, miss [laughter]. Nonetheless it’s true. It’s true. It’s merely not larger residing through chemistry, of us. So what can we do with the raw provides, as you recognized as throughout the forest floor—how can we simulate that form of pure course of?
And naturally, composting is a really important half. We’re going to discuss that in a minute. Nonetheless should we have a soil check out? And if that is the case, how sometimes? I’ve to say, in 35 years in my space, in my vegetable beds and elsewhere, I’ve perhaps accomplished soil checks a few occasions maybe on probably the most. And it was when there was a difficulty.
Usually speaking, if each factor seems to be rising correctly and performing normally, to my estimation, I don’t. Nonetheless what do you contemplate that? Is soil testing certainly one of many points… I really feel that’s certainly one of many things you’re going to indicate on the category in Would possibly.
Annie: Yeah. Successfully, proper right here, let me ask you this. When you did your soil check out, what sort of check out did you run and what have been you significantly searching for?
Margaret: The first time, early on in my time proper right here, I needed to know the pH, I really feel. I needed to know form of sometimes, on account of I moved from a particular area of the state to this area. And I really feel that was my very very first thing.
After which I really feel there was one… One time, it wanted to do with the dying of a woody plant, an older woody plant, and it was suspicious. There have been no earlier indicators. It was practically like a pathology report. You understand what I indicate? It was soil along with root supplies and totally different supplies from the plant. And it was really a pathology issue, searching for one factor, so that wasn’t pretty a soil check out. It was just a bit bit completely totally different.
Annie: Yeah. Nonetheless I really acknowledge one of the best ways you’re framing this, on account of I really feel what you’re explaining is form of the two correct causes to do any form of a check out in anyway.
And what I would say is that, soil could possibly be talked about from loads of completely totally different views. In your case, everytime you’re transferring from one area to a special, whether or not or not it’s county or nation, or moist to dry inside a neighborhood, that’s a superb trigger to do loads of soil checks.
I indicate, I would start with exactly what you most likely did, a pH check out, on account of pH tells you a large number in regards to the accessibility of assorted nutritional vitamins. After which moreover, you’ll be able to start to categorize what vegetation you would or won’t have the flexibility to develop, given their preferences for pH, correct? So if I was to maneuver to New Jersey, I’ll perhaps flip right into a blueberry farmer pretty quickly, with their barely additional acid soils, whereas proper right here in New York, it’s a more durable plant for me. So it’s a superb place to start.
Nonetheless I would say that the soil checks that make me enhance, it’s more likely to be additional subtle. In case you ship a soil sample out to a cooperative extension—proper right here regionally, we use Cornell heaps, they’re going to ship you once more… And that’s what I was curious, while you had accomplished. They’re going to ship you once more what seems like a chemistry report of all kinds of numerous points, which could possibly be very, very useful, if what you’re learning and how one can seek for it, and a few, while you took the check out on the correct time.
And what I indicate by that is I really feel the place of us fall proper right into a entice with soil testing is while you start out throughout the spring and dig up a sample of your soil whereas it’s nonetheless chilly, you’re going to get completely totally different outcomes than it’s possible you’ll mid-season or late-season, simply because the soil is a residing space. And a great deal of these mineral nutritional vitamins is more likely to be additional accessible or readable as they switch through the soil, because of the decomposers and totally different microbes which could be pushing them spherical, than they could be while you did it throughout the offseason.
So merely to take an unlimited step once more, I would say the checks that seem most useful to me is to understand how correctly your soil drains, which is actually one factor I plan on workshopping in Would possibly—the composition sometimes by the use of its steadiness of particulates, like sand, silt, and clay. Merely as soon as extra, to offer you form of a approach of how water strikes, how air strikes, what vegetation is more likely to be comfy in that space, after which really broadly speaking what the mineral nutritional vitamins and pure add content material materials are, which I would probably advocate a pH check out, resembling you probably did, sooner than I did something, like a heavy metals check out or a mineral-nutrients check out.
Nonetheless numerous it is merely experience, correct? One amongst my favorite strategies to understand soil is just to develop quite a lot of crops, after which to pay attention to which vegetation or which plant households are inclined to do correctly or not do correctly.
And as long as that’s not as a result of photo voltaic publicity or any of the other parts in a yard, I can typically work out, “Oh, it’d want one factor to do with the soil composition in a certain area.” And that’s form of pleasurable. It’s form of like getting a postcard out of your nonverbal vegetation [laughter].
Margaret: For the pH check out, can I exploit a home check out or I’ve to ship it to a lab?
Annie: Dwelling checks are utterly optimistic. I indicate, it’s, for most likely probably the most half, a broad-strokes idea of what’s taking place is good enough.
Margaret: O.Okay. So as soon as extra, I’m a longtime pure gardener. I’m nearly not someone who buys a great deal of baggage of one thing—and albeit, I don’t even really sometimes use fertilizers. I’m a compost, compost, compost form of a person, [laughter]?
Annie: Mm-hmm.
Margaret: So it’s like I’m recycling the entire pure matter I’ve, after which I’m topdressing my vegetable beds, after clear up throughout the fall and after harvesting points. It’s like that’s been my form of passive choice to hopefully ensure that the soil has what it needs, the exact tilth, as I would say, and drainage and all these good points, water-holding functionality.
So pure matter, of us write to me as soon as extra spherical this time of yr, and they also’re like, “Ooh, I’ve all these leaves on the underside. Can I merely flip them into my vegetable beds?”
And it’s like, what is the pure matter? And in what state of affairs is the pure matter that we should all the time consider using, each if we’re rising greens in large containers, or in raised beds or open yard beds? What are good amendments, so to speak, and by no means purchased amendments, nevertheless additional pure amendments? [Above, the Edible Academy vegetable beds; NYBG photo.]
Annie: Yeah. I assume there’s two scales to answer that question. There’s form of the USDA stage, American soils composition and the best way we amend them. After which there’s the home gardener. I’ll take this from the home-gardening perspective.
Margaret: Certain, positively. Yeah.
Annie: [Laughter.] Yeah. I indicate, I assume going once more to my earlier degree about mineral nutritional vitamins, if you happen to’re a vegetable yard, this generally is a barely completely totally different reply than if you happen to’re a home grower with perennial ornamental shrubs, and plenty of others.
For perennial vegetation, to start with that, on account of it’s barely easier, as soon as extra referring to what is the pure world doing, sometimes speaking, within the occasion that they’re deciduous, within the occasion that they’re shedding leaves or shedding plant supplies, that supplies staying on the underside beneath the plant is already a unbelievable pure modification. And likewise you don’t have to do so much. I indicate, with perennials, you don’t want to flip one thing in as so much as you presumably can help it, besides the soil’s in need of aeration.
With the vegetable rising. I really feel your technique sounds good. And by the use of the itemizing of what in order so as to add or to not add, gosh, it’s just a bit too articulated to summarize, nevertheless I would say primarily an effective way to think about it is, when you’ve gotten one factor that has an obvious fungal sickness, tomatoes are a standard occasion, I would exempt that out of your composting pile.
So while you’re eradicating one factor, on account of it is a Cucurbitaceae and it has powdery mildew, I wouldn’t basically compost that, on account of a great deal of these spores can outlive typically the balmier temperatures of a home compost pile than an unusual industrial pile, which is more likely to be upwards of 160 ranges. So I would stay away from diseased plant tissue.
Meals scraps out of your property, your cooking, are utterly O.Okay. I’m the first particular person in order so as to add cooking oils and bones and the entire points of us say to not. I add them, nevertheless is partly on account of I protect my compost pile working really scorching. I try to protect it above 130 ranges, when it’s completely processing, if not 160.
After which by the use of the browns, like your leaf litter and regardless of, yeah, utterly. As soon as extra, merely focus on the tempo at which points are breaking down. Leaf litter from deciduous Northeastern timber take a really very long time to interrupt down. You might even see an oak leaf sitting in your pile for weeks, if not months, if not years longer than your avocado fleshy pit or regardless of.
So yeah, nevertheless apart from that, I don’t know that there’s a short choice to itemizing what’s certain or what’s no, apart from to solely hold watch over the pile and its diverse smells and guarantee points are getting good and crumbly sooner than you add it to your vegetable mattress.
Margaret: Because of my inclination, when someone says, “Oh, I’ve this large pile of leaves,” or, “I’ve these leaves I merely raked up from over there. Can I merely to them into my vegetable beds?” I’m like, “I’d reasonably see you age them some additional, and even perhaps crumble them up some additional.” Have you ever learnt what I indicate?
Annie: Yeah.
Margaret: I wouldn’t flip in complete, significantly oak leaves, what you’ve gotten been merely saying. I indicate, the chemistry aside [laughter], I merely… I don’t form of want to try to start seeds and every totally different six inches is an oak leaf sticking up. You understand what I indicate?
Annie: Yeah.
Margaret: So I’m additional of have a leaves-only pile with some further leaves that I don’t go away on the underside, and maybe run it over with the mower sooner than the autumn. And let it crumble little. Let it flip into leaf mould. I’d reasonably put that in.
Annie: Yeah. I agree with you. And I really feel when you’ve gotten been to think about this as merely form of stroll through what could happen subsequent steps-wise, while you take leaf litter and easily put it spherical your greens, it’s merely going to stay there.
The decomposers that work on that supplies aren’t basically going to be in your vegetable yard the least bit. If I consider, the place do you see capsule bugs? You see capsule bugs beneath leaf litter in forest near woody tissue. You don’t basically on a regular basis see capsule bugs wandering spherical your tomato patch, so-
Margaret: Throughout the baking photo voltaic, no. In a raised mattress or one factor, no.
Annie: Yeah. They’re rigorously related to lobsters. They need water. So I would let the decomposition happen in its private space with the exact social gathering attendees. After which when that social gathering seems accomplished, you presumably can take that soil and put it spherical your greens, which are a completely completely totally different rising ambiance, ?
Margaret: Correct. I indicate, I even purchased a question the other day from someone who wished to search out out about using straw as an modification, turning straw into her vegetable soil. And I was like, “What?” It merely didn’t… I exploit it as mulch typically, nevertheless… I indicate, as soon as extra, I’d reasonably have supplies that was, as you’ve gotten been merely describing earlier, composted and so forth first, aged first. [Annie, above; photo by Jackie Snow.]
Annie: Yeah.
Margaret: Yeah. On the Edible Academy at NYBG, are you doing no-till or are you tilling? Or what’s taking place with that?
Annie: So I’ve labored proper right here since 2005. And as long as I’ve labored proper right here, we’re very numerous the top-dressing-only methodology. It’s very unusual that we’ve wished to aerate the soil.
And at this degree, I would say the part of the situation on which we develop greens, it’s merely compost excessive to bottom. I indicate, we’re all the time together with supplies.
And certain, merely to say, the compost we get comes from pure supplies that’s been gathered in all places within the New York Botanical Yard. In case you’ve ever visited our campus, that’s 250 acres of residing vegetation. We’re using composts that’s derived from grass clippings, these oak leaves we protect talking about, vegetable scraps. It’s not merely our inside supplies. So it’s gorgeous, rich, very numerous soil.
And we do add amendments, nevertheless what I’ll say about amendments is… I’ll give you an occasion. We use one factor like a flooring soybean meal. We might use one factor like a dry bat guano or a fish emulsion. These are all moreover, of their very personal method, pure supplies. It’s all carbon-based pure stuff.
And the rationale it actually works is on account of we’re together with it to a soil that’s full of residing microbes, on account of we’re together with compost—compost isn’t merely passive filth, as a result of it have been. It’s not merely sand, silt, and clay and pure matter content material materials. Pure matter content material materials refers to this specific cycle of residing creatures actively decomposing. So after we add one factor like soybean meal to our soil, it is itself then being decomposed, after which the nitrogen in it is being rendered accessible to the vegetation.
So, that’s one factor really important. And I am questioning, to circle once more on what sounds resembling you’re astonishing yard, I really feel part of its success and why you’re able to easily protect together with compost, is because you’re together with residing creatures to your soil, together with the mineral nutritional vitamins and the sand, silt, clay, and plenty of others. that goes in. So that’s really what individuals are striving for. You can in the reduction of the amount of additional ancillary amendments, while you’re starting to create a really healthful hospitable ecosystem by persevering with in order so as to add compost.
Margaret: Correct. I want to spend the rest of the time, or a great deal of it, talking about composting, on account of we’ve hinted at it only a few cases now. You should have a really good depth of expertise on this subject. And from all that knowledge and from listening to school college students and different folks on the Edible Academy and different folks at lectures that you simply simply’ve given and so forth, all of your instructing, what are the problems that you simply simply want to inform individuals are the form of biggest wins, the problems that they may tweak, do in one other approach, be additional observant about? Have you ever learnt what I indicate?
Is it retaining the pile just a bit bit moist? Or is it turning additional sometimes? I don’t know. What are the big hits, do you suppose, that you simply simply uncover that folk don’t understand may very well improve their composting methods?
Annie: Yeah. In truth, the best and maybe solely merchandise is comment and faith that higher than you suppose you do, while you’re out attempting spherical taking note of decomposition occurring on the planet. It’s a very pure course of that happens everywhere that there dwell points. And so a great deal of the areas the place I see of us give you a question, it’s normally about a couple of of those trickier devices, like espresso grounds or egg shells, or, “Can I compost cheese?”
And for regardless of trigger, these seem very mysterious. Nonetheless it’s merely faith that in time, each factor will decompose. So that espresso flooring that you simply simply’re questioning like, “Why is it nonetheless there?” It’s a tricky, strong ligneous piece of plant tissue. It’s going to take a while.
As soon as extra, leaning into this higher than you suppose you do, I’m sure practically everyone is conscious of excellent versus unhealthy smells intuitively. The nostril hairs in our nostrils wrinkle after we odor one factor that’s not going correctly. And I really feel, for any time you’ve come as a lot as your compost pile and talked about, “Oh, I don’t know if it’s ready,” you’ll odor it. I indicate, I really perception that you simply know how to odor what good healthful soil supplies smells like after which what it smells like when it’s unhealthy.
Likewise, I consider this heaps after I’m going for walks in swamps, bogs, forests, open landscapes, prairies. These all have really completely totally different terroir smells. And that has so much to do with the choice methods via which decomposers work along with the plant tissue in that space.
So I merely sometimes ask of us to take a step once more, relax, perception that higher than you suppose you do. After which even everytime you’re not actively standing in entrance of your compost pile, focus on the rest of the world spherical you everytime you’re going out for a hike or stroll, and try to see when you’ll be able to spot the place that’s occurring naturally and the best way it’s working and what clues you presumably can take from that to make use of to your particular person pile.
Margaret: Correct. Because of I indicate, you talked concerning the espresso grounds, and likewise you’re correct, that and eggshells, and there’s a bunch of points that, again and again I get the question, “Can I exploit this? Can I exploit that?” Because of look, throughout the net age, a great deal of these items have been touted proper right here or there on social media and so forth as, “Oh, that’s the perfect issue for this. Or this might forestall this downside.”
And it’s like, what, guys? Merely one thing that ensures to be the be-all-end-all, merely neglect about it [laughter], and do what you talked about, go throughout the forest and watch how the forest is caring for itself. Correct?
Annie: Yeah, exactly.
Margaret: Nonetheless espresso grounds or one thing, anybody issue, I don’t want to put an unlimited mass of anybody issue form of isolated inside my heap. Have you ever learnt what I indicate? I want a mixture. I want a mixture of points, so the work can happen. I don’t want to give these invisible detritivores and totally different helper creatures which could be even smaller, resembling you talked about the capsule bugs [below; Wikipedia photo], nevertheless even practically invisible…correctly, invisible ones.
Annie: Microbes, yeah.
Margaret: Yeah. I don’t want to give them three weeks of espresso grounds in an unlimited dump. Have you ever learnt what I indicate?
Annie: Yeah. And I indicate, the issue is you presumably can, nevertheless you then’re solely going to get the micro-population that truly enjoys consuming espresso grounds, and that’s not going to do you a large number good. No, so it’s going to take a while.
I really feel the humorous nevertheless relatable issue is we, as folks, have unbelievable tooth, correct? Among the many many decomposers of the world, we have a couple of of the best. We’re larger at biting points than capsule bugs are. So when you’ll be able to’t chew through it, chewing a espresso flooring is troublesome. Take into consideration how powerful that’s going to be for a micro organism that’s working solely on acids, or on a capsule bug that is form of clomping spherical like a lobster, like I discussed.
So I really feel on the end of the day, numerous it merely has to do with what logically is smart to you? And I really feel a mixed pile is the correct choice to reply that, on account of even while you don’t understand it exactly, it’s not the correct recipe, it’s going to, sometimes speaking, broaden the viewers of microbes and decomposers which could be at work. And that will help facilitate a additional thermophilic, hotter pile that will proceed to take care of this social gathering go for your complete microbes that rely upon these temperatures to do wonderful decomposition work.
Margaret: I actually just like the idea of retaining the social gathering going. That’s good. That sounds very constructive. Successfully, Annie Novak, from the Edible Academy on the New York Botanical Yard, I’m so glad to speak to you and as well as that you simply simply’re going to be coming to the world, as I discussed, as part of The Workshop Experience Weekend, Would possibly seventh to eighth.
You’ll be proper right here Would possibly seventh doing all your fowl migration class and your soil and composting class. And I’m attempting forward to seeing you in particular person and hopefully welcoming you to the yard, when you’ve gotten time to stop by. So thanks very so much for making time proper now.
Annie: Oh, I acknowledge it so much, Margaret. Thanks for standing for compost. And it’s lovely to speak with you on a regular basis.
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MY WEEKLY public-radio current, rated a “top-5 yard podcast” by “The Guardian” newspaper throughout the UK, began its eleventh yr in March 2020. In 2016, the current gained three silver medals for excellence from the Yard Writers Affiliation. It’s produced at Robin Hood Radio, the smallest NPR station throughout the nation. Listen regionally throughout the Hudson Valley (NY)-Berkshires (MA)-Litchfield Hills (CT) Mondays at 8:30 AM Jap, rerun at 8:30 Saturdays. Or play the April 4, 2022 current using the participant near the best of this transcript. You can subscribe to all future editions on iTunes/Apple Podcasts or Spotify
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